My reading of Constitutional history leads me to believe the framers were talking about promoting the general welfare within the bounds of the Constitution, not trying to promote public welfare programs outside their intent.
Your reading can lead you anywhere you'd like it to, but like I said above, interpreting the Constitution isn't like deciding what the bible means. There's a carefully defined way to do the former and the latter is up for grabs.Comment Posted By digitusmedius On 27.09.2009 @ 16:41
Six, I clarified my statement and I think you knew what the original meaning was anyway but took advantage of the poor way I phrased it. Fair enough. But, let's look closer at this:
Do? Yes. Pay? Maybe. Income tax has been ruled as Constitutional so there certainly is prescedent. So, if you want mandated health care all you have to do is get a Constitutional amendment and I’ll argue it’s legal. Simple, no?
I hope you're not trying to say that the government has less power to tax than it does to send people off to die. And we don't need any such thing as an amendment to set up a government run health care system. We already have several and they were established in the way that any new or additional system will be established: by the power of Congress to pass legislation. Your side can challenge it on constitutional grounds after it becomes law. Good luck with that.Comment Posted By digitusmedius On 27.09.2009 @ 16:37
Since we’re playing Tenther games here
One of those games seems to be that the Tenth somehow gives "the people" the right to simply opt out of whatever government program or ignore any law they don't like. Or, even sillier, that any individual can decide what's constitutional and what isn't. Like the bible, the Constitution does have some ambiguity. Unlike the bible, it's interpretation is not up for grabs.Comment Posted By digitusmedius On 27.09.2009 @ 16:08
Nice pick up, busboy. I know the "general welfare" phrase is in the Preamble but did not know that it reappears in the main body of the document.Comment Posted By digitusmedius On 27.09.2009 @ 16:01
"Make being a citizen unconstitutional?"
I see my wording was imprecise. What I meant to convey was that mandating citizenship to in this country would be unconstitutional since there's nothing in the Constitution that requires naturalization in order to enter and live here.Comment Posted By digitusmedius On 27.09.2009 @ 14:45
The supply of electrical in California would never have been a problem if the market had been deregulated — the problem occurred because half the market was deregulated and the other half was not; an impossible situation.
And why not fully regulated rather than fully deregulated? Oh, right, because deregulation is always better. That's why we should remove even the pretty much worthless regulations on the banking and finance industry because it's so self-evident that it was the weak regulations in that sector that motivated it to run hog wild with everyone else's money. If there had been absolutely no regulation of that sector, it would have behaved much more responsibly and we'd all be millionaires now.Comment Posted By digitusmedius On 27.09.2009 @ 14:40
BTW, I don't believe there's anything in the Constitution that requires anyone to be a citizen in order to live here. I'd be happy to be directed to that "mandate" in the Constitution if anyone cares to so direct me.Comment Posted By digitusmedius On 27.09.2009 @ 14:28
So those laws, as is the 16th amendment, are constitutional in your view? Therefore, the government, through the proper constitutional procedures, does indeed have the right to mandate that the people do or pay for certain things.Comment Posted By digitusmedius On 27.09.2009 @ 14:07
Sooo, the government has no constitutional power to mandate mandates, eh? That would make the military draft unconstitutional. It would make the requirement to register to vote unconstitutional. It would make actually being a citizen unconstitutional. This is a fun game. Anyone have any other unconstitutional mandates under which we currently suffer?Comment Posted By digitusmedius On 27.09.2009 @ 13:25
Murders and health care....yeah, exactly the same. Brilliant.Comment Posted By digitusmedius On 27.09.2009 @ 13:19
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